Nunca digas que de este agua no beberé...
"May my cry come before you, O LORD; give me understanding according to your word. May my supplication come before you; deliver me according to your promise. May my lips overflow with praise, for you teach me your decrees. May my tongue sing of your word, for all your commands are righteous. May your hand be ready to help me, for I have chosen your precepts. I long for your salvation, O LORD, and your law is my delight. Let me live that I may praise you, and may your laws sustain me. I have strayed like a lost sheep. Seek your servant, for I have not forgotten your commands." pslam 119:169-176
we tend to think of eternity as haveing a begining, i.e. eternity will start when we get to heaven. however by it's definition it is also retro-active. this should raise some interesting questions about our existance here on earth in terms of it being in hell, or in heaven. good food for thought...
W estuvé aquí @ 12:47
14 Comments:
We're studying this right now in my phil. religion class.
The Kalam Cosmological argument says that the universe has a beginning, it's not infinite, because an actual infinite set is impossible. And if the universe has a beginning, then it had to have a cause. And if it had a cause, it had to be a personal being (ok ok, I skipped a few steps).
But then people say, "Well then, what about this 'eternal life' stuff you Christians always talk about?"
But our eternal life is not an infinity of time. We are finite. If the universe had an infinite past, we would never arrive at today. But since we have a finite start, we can go on forever into the future as a 'potential infinite.' So we could have infinite life and it doesn't conflict with the impossibility of actual infinite sets.
Yeah, this is a really long conversation I'm trying to squeeze into a tiny box. Good topic though!
Ok, I'm not a philosophy student, so I won't pretend like I know what I'm talking about, but isn't it possible that our universe doesn't exist in a linear time-line?
I was going to say something after that, but I already got myself confused.
However, I DO believe that our existence right now is finite and after we die it becomes infinite. That doesn't make sense to me. Eternity includes now.
wow
Well Aro, as for our universe not existing in a linear timeline...I'm not sure what that would mean. One event has to take place after another for our world to not fall into chaos. It would be impossible for our world to be linear and exist inside of this strange non-linear setting.
Think of it this way. Say you are reading what I am writing right now and this is on page 1,354 of a book. Say you are an above average reader and it takes you 1 minute per page to read. It would take you 1,354 minutes to get to the page you are now reading. Now imagine that there are an infinite number of pages before this page you are now reading. How long would it take you to get to this page? Easy. An infinite amount of time. In other words, never. So if the universe was infinite, an infinite number of events would have to have taken place before this current event of you reading this comment. You reading this comment means that an infinite number of events have not happened before now.
As for being finite and then becoming infinite, that's one way to look at it. But our soul always continues. We are not infinite beings. We never can be because we were born. Anything with a finite starting point or ending point is not infinite and never can be. What we have is, like Kyle said, 'eternal' life. It is what is called a 'potential infinite.' So we could go on (our souls) forever into the future and we would still always be finite because we had a starting point. But we would still have eternal life.
sorry for taking up all your comment space Kyle
um, so infinite is basically a useless term because it basically means nothing?
no no no....we can't have an actual infinite set. Like an infinite set of books in a library. You can easily have a theoretical or metaphysical infinite set. Like numbers. There are an infinite amount of numbers and that leads to no problems. The problem is when you try and apply infinity to real objects.
Take the library for example. If you had a library shelf with an infinite number of books on it and you were to remove one, there would still be an infinite set of books. Say they were alternately colored red and black and you were to remove EVERY red book. That would be half. But you would still have an infinite number of books because that is what infinite means.
So when you apply infinity to a real thing like books or the universe, you end up with absurdity. If you apply it to something like God or numbers, you're alright.
Numbers are real.
So is God.
I don't get it.
Philosophy is silly.
I never said numbers or God are not real...when I used the word 'real' I was talking about physical objects not things that exist. I said they are not physical. Show me the number 3. No no, not that thing I just wrote, that's merely a symbol that represents the idea of the number 3. There are actually huge groups who don't believe numbers actually exists. That they are merely created by men's minds. That's pretty ridiculous, but still.
You can't show me a 3 just like you can't show me God. You can show me the effects of them or how they obviously must exist because of X, Y, and Z, but you can't actually show me them.
So like I said, they are real, but they are not physical.
I'll show you three, bub!
As in, three CLAWS slicing through your philosophizin' face, bub!
wouldn't it be great if we just kept this going forever? muahahahahaha!
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